West vs East and Conditional Belief I was reading a post just yesterday where the person was ruminating about the very legitimate issue of people who live in the West just assuming that everyone they’re talking to understands the basics of Christianity- even though Christianity is actually quite complicated, while assuming that most other faiths are totally monolithic. And they are right-
we do that all the time. Even people who claim not to be Christians continue to go around basically acting like Christians, just Christians who don’t pray (except, you know, when it’s an emergency) or go to church (but know what to do if they find themselves in one) or read their Bibles (but think they know what it says anyway) and say they’re not religious but then claim some priviledged right to make jokes or criticisms that really only people who are part of the religion have the right to make.
And there’s the problem. Because one of their comments was also that monotheism seems unfair because while monogamy makes sense it’s difficult to ask someone to believe that other hot people don’t even exist.
You don’t have to look at monotheism that way. It’s very possible to worship only one god while acknowledging that other gods exist. If other gods didn’t exist, people wouldn’t need to be told not to worship them. “Other gods don’t even exist” is fairly new as a concept, really.
What’s even odder is when people say they don’t believe in God, and they end up revealing that what they really mean is, they don’t believe in a very specific god. For example, those people who lose their faith in the Abrahamic God because they discovered a few facts about Jesus are wrong.
I can see not believing in anything you can’t see with your own eyes or prove scientifically. Believers have no proof either, at least, no proof that the majority of non believers will accept unless it comes from someone with a super advanced scientific degree. But saying that you won’t believe, and making it
conditional- I don’t get that. All that does is show me that you’re not trying-you’re not a true non believer, you’re just transferring your issues with one deity you don’t really understand onto all deities that you’ve never bothered to learn about. And by doing so, you’re affirming the belief that there is only one god and the worldview that goes along with that specific version of that specific god is the only legitimate one if you want to have a faith.
I noticed this on “Heroes” last night. Mohinder said “I can’t believe in a God who would allow this disease to exist”. Well, Mohinder, that’s an awfully
Western, Christian outlook. Maybe
Sayid can share some of his wild boar with you.
A God worthy of such a title would be trivially capable of constructing a text such that it was at once unambiguous in its meaning, beautiful in its descriptive power and persuasive in its arguments. If he chose to deliver this text to his potential worshipers by writing it on the side of a mountain, or coming to them in their dreams, its message would be genuinely transparent regardless.
The absence of any such text is quite telling, from the point of view of this atheist. Instead we have any number of collections of nonsense, just-so stories, and fraudulent accounts of events that never happened, not very good poems, lists of inconsequential stuff, and so on.And I WANT A PONY!
stomps footMy favorite example of all time, really.
"Religious people are dumb for not using their brains and figuring stuff out for themselves. If God is real, why can't God just tell me exactly what he wants in clear words so I don't have to do any guess work?"
If God did come and make it clear, it wouldn't make a difference. People would just ignore it anyway, or fight over it. God is not Santa Clause and no one ever said he was supposed to be.
The rest of it… you think a book that
wasn't "beautiful in its descriptive power and persuasive in its arguments" would have lasted for four thousand years and inspired three of the world's most popular religions plus thousands of books, plays, songs, artwork, poetry, speeches, movies and dance performances? And inspired thousands of people to sacrifice their lives? Really?
"Fraudulent accounts of events that never happened" is called
mythology. This kind of thinking is what makes religious people fear those who don't believe- the fear that objective facts will become so important that there's no room left for imagination or fantastical thought, because people unable to process metaphor and simile and myth have said that anyone who can is gullible and old fashioned. Can't have that, it's "nonsense".
"Not very good poems." Ah…, so you were raised on the NIV, huh?
It's just funny how people who don't believe are always talking about how people who do believe never shut up about their beliefs, but I keep running into these atheists who feel the need to bring their non belief up constantly, even
when it's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Blah blah blah serious theological/political discussion among people who are trying to get along and find common ground. Blah blah point made blah blah
See, that's why I don't believe.
Imagine if religious people did that.
Guest at a dinner party: "This is great chicken a la king. "
Conservative Christian: "See, that's why I don't believe in evolution."