thecosmicdance's Journal

We are all Yoko Ono
The Yoko Factor

ETA: I'm not saying men who don't believe in J/M hate women. This is what is confusing me... I never expected to hear that from that person, of all people who might make a statement like that and it really threw me for a loop. It's okay to disagree with me about stuff like this, but when you start saying that believing what I believe makes me a dangerous heretic, I think we have a problem. Even if the statement wasn't aimed specifically at me.

Tell me.

Why is it always the guys who say Jesus and Mary Magdalene could not have been lovers/married? It’s always the men. I am sure there are women who don't agree with me either (like my mother) but part of that is conditioning from a male dominated religion, and it's more often the men who don't understand why this whole thing should even be an issue- apparently, even some men who think they're feminists!

It’s disappointing, I tell you. You think they’re on your side, and then you find out they’re just like all the other ones in their “I’m so full of my own male privilege I don’t even realize how much I’m excluding you even as I think I’m being sensitive and modern.” Maybe the logic is something like, it’s sexist to assume she and Jesus were lovers because it means that her only purpose in the story was as a sexual partner. And if that were true, yes, I’d agree that it’s wrong. No, it shouldn’t be the way of the world that the only way Mary could become a part of the group was if she was having sex with the rabbi. But then, it shouldn’t be true that for thousands of years the only way people would listen when God talked was if he talked through a man, and yet, shock of shocks, it was true.

And you know, we’re talking about a world where people got married in their teens, and men were not supposed to spend time alone with women they weren’t married to or related to, and we’ve got a thirty year old hero who has this woman who is not his relative, who always seems to be with him, and the writers of the Gospels make a point of mentioning that she’s always there…taking on roles traditionally reserved for a wife. The (named) women in the group were: His sister, his mother, Mary Magdalene's sister, Joanna,who was already married to someone else, Susanah (a character who doesn't seem to be around much)and Mary Magdalene. Magdalene certainly goes around acting like she's his wife. If she's not his wife, then you have to entertain the possibility that he was gay. If he'd taken some strange vow of chastity, how come none of the people around him ever mention that? Remark on how weird he is for being thirty and not married? Come on, we think that's weird *now* and we marry in our 20s and 30s on average.

But nor should having sex with Jesus be something that disqualifies her from also being an apostle in her own right. The world is not divided into women who are bed partners and women who are intellectual partners. Bringing sex into the relationship does not destroy whatever else they might have had. She was a smart woman and she was also a woman who had sex, it’s just as sexist to insist that she couldn’t be both, implying that the minute she slept with him she'd become something less and dirty him by association.

Another argument is the one where sex creates an impurity in the relationships, it changes the whole thing, drags it down into the gutter of the flesh instead of raising it up to the heights of pure spirit and intellect.

Oh, shut up. And I’m seeing this kind of junk from people who I’d assume have even actually had sex, so you can’t blame it on a bunch of cloistered monks. I’m sure your wives and girlfriends (or boyfriends) really appreciate knowing that what you do with them taints your relationship with God. That you regard them as less of a person for sleeping with you, and yourself as somehow diminished. If you think Jesus wouldn't do it, why are you doing it, hmm?

"Well, he was better than I am. I'm just a guy."

So God invented something he finds disgusting and he didn't want his major prophets doing it either, it's just that gross and demeaning? Someone should have told Moses that. Maybe women shouldn't exist at all, maybe we should all just become guys so you don't have to worry about it anymore.

“Hey, that’s totally not what I meant! I’m all about nature, and feminism!”

Right. So please explain to me again why it’s wrong for Jesus to have a wife or girlfriend. Why, in this case, are you rejecting the possibility of two flesh and blood people engaging in what’s only natural for human beings, an expression of human joy and emotional bonding, a continuation of life, etc, etc? Yeah, I write erotica, so maybe I'm biased but sex is only degrading if it’s sex for the sake of sex, with people who don't respect each other. The whole cosmic love between God’s chosen prophet and the woman who would follow him into Hell is not degrading. It’s beautiful. And uh. Cosmic. Hence my username (no, it's not just one of my favorite glam rock songs). And while we're on the subject, no, I don't mind God having a sex life either- sounds like he had a very passionate one, if you check the OT.

I know that the most popular belief is that Jesus didn't have the inclination or the time for sex,but I don't buy it. He was supposed to experience life, and that is part of life, it's a huge part of life. His religion mandated that people were to marry and reproduce and he took his religion pretty seriously, so if he was going to reject that part, then he should be shown struggling with that (like in "Lamb" where he's shown having urges and being curious, and yes, having feelings for Mary but not being allowed to act on them). His sacrifice has so much more impact if he's actually giving stuff up. I don't know, I find it kind of insulting that someone might believe that he was so above us spiritually that he was free of the "taint" of desire for women.

oooh tainted love! Don't touch me, please, I cannot stand the way you tease!

Maybe it's a straight guy thing. You can't allow the possibility of someone sleeping with Jesus because you wouldn't have wanted to if you'd been there. Fine. Isn't it neat how your male priviledge, something present in almost every major world religion, allows you to interpret your squicks as universal fact, while things that bother/concern me are considered the product of over emotional speculation by gullible children?

Sorry for bringing sex with a woman into your story about an asexual guy and the asexual friends he likes to go camping with (coughtwelveyearoldboyscough), didn’t mean to break up the Beatles by merely existing and having needs and thoughts and feelings of my own. In spite of whatever feminist sensibilities you have, you don’t actually know what it’s like to be a Christian woman, only half a person whose opinions are either ignored or only tolerated as long as she pretends to be a man- as long as she never brings up being female or tries to insert any "girlie" ideas into the Gospels. Other people telling you who you are and what you want.

Sure, a lot of those Priory of Sion/Templars/ZOMG Secret Lineage/Holy Grail theories can get ridiculous and many of them are clearly inaccurate but we’re not talking about those. The flaws in those theories are different from the evidence in the Gospels and what they mean to people who want Jesus and Mary Magdalene to be lovers. A lot of us are not stupid, and have actually studied our Bibles.

I certainly don't think it's something you need to "guard" Christianity against. Hurry, protect the Lord from women who might try to sleep with him, eww, girl cooties on the Savior. And since I feel like I need to tell more people about J/M, I don't think we'd get along if we ever met, considering you are "guarding" Christianity against my evil influence!

I'm evil, yippie!

The “it’s not canon” argument just doesn’t wash either because , well, we all need to be very, very careful about claiming that our versions are canon, considering. Well, you know. I shouldn’t have to explain. And if that means I’m “rejecting sacred tradition” then you just go ahead and think I’m doing that, mmkay? And anyway, historical truth or not, the Jesus and Mary had sex and had a baby thing is a frickin’ metaphor. I’ll give you some time to figure it out.

Reccomended outside link:
Musings of a Queer, Catholic Whore is a wonderful post on Mary Magdalene.

Current Mood: annoyed